Poker Grump

Another small point for the Deuce-Four -- was play...

2012-05-24T07:47:44.714-07:00

Another small point for the Deuce-Four -- was playing trivia at a local wings place, and happened to glance over at the poker screen run by the same network.

One player had the Deuce-Four, and the cards had come J-2-2-4-8.

Too bad this was just for fun and not for real chips!

i do dude...or else i wouldn't say them

2012-05-23T19:56:02.056-07:00

i do dude...or else i wouldn't say them

I can't believe Thomas honestly believe what h...

2012-05-23T18:29:15.557-07:00

I can't believe Thomas honestly believe what he types.

it's all about being pc, which is effing stupi...

2012-05-23T18:06:27.202-07:00

it's all about being pc, which is effing stupid. it's just a word...i don't see how words hurt because they are just words and not actions.

i am a white male, part of the only group out there that isn't allowed to be offended, so my opinion won't carry much weight.

i don't understand being offended or care to waste my time worrying about being offended. if someone wants to hate me, they are taking up their time...i don't have the time to hate someone that hasn't done anything to me...and calling me a name or saying they are going to do something to me isn't going to hurt me.

words are just words...as long as the actions aren't taken, i don't see what the big deal is about saying something.

ive had no luck at all playing that hand, and i do...

2012-05-23T14:55:01.985-07:00

ive had no luck at all playing that hand, and i dont think i want to play it anymore.

"Murder" has become innocuous due to (1)...

2012-05-23T12:55:30.068-07:00

"Murder" has become innocuous due to (1) its common and persistent use, (2) it is also so extreme that no one takes the word seriously, and
(3) there's no chance that anyone at the table has been murdered.

You can't say that about rape.

Thanks for the link and also thanks for the hand. ...

2012-05-23T11:29:52.678-07:00

Thanks for the link and also thanks for the hand. Really saved my night.

I was in a small tournament this past weekend and ...

2012-05-23T08:30:43.804-07:00

I was in a small tournament this past weekend and found myself with 3 remaining players. Always looking for an edge and hoping someone would notice, after the flop I would immediately pick up my cards if I intended on folding or checking. On my turn, I would fold or check pounding my cards on the felt. With two of us left I found myself in the big blind with 24d. Flop, 447. SB checks. I pound my cards. Turn is a Q. SB contemplates next move. Moves away 1 stack, then moves it back. Damm! But wait, he still appears to be thinking. Hmmmm, please, please, YES! I snap called his all in. Thanks 24!

Oh wow. I feel compelled to comment here, not jus...

2012-05-23T02:10:51.439-07:00

Oh wow. I feel compelled to comment here, not just because you referenced both my pal Prudence and me, but also because, ironically, I used the word "rape" in a poker context just a few nights before you heard Prudence use the word "murder." In fact, I used it because Prudence had just had her Kings full of Aces beaten by a ROYAL FLUSH. So I was actually referring to Prudence being (metaphorically) raped. There's more to the story, but that will have to wait for my blog post when I get to it.

I don't regret using the word in the context I did, and I will have no gualms whatsoever reporting the anecdote accurately and quoting myself in the blog post.

But as with most things in life, context is everything. In my case, all of us in the game were friends (most were employees of the poker room, but not me of course) and I know that Prudence considers me her friend. Also, I said it right in front of her boyfriend, who was playing in the game too. And of course I didn't use it as a threat, I used it to describe a horrible bad beat at poker that had already happened when I used it.

In the context of the 2+2 post that was referenced, it was very different. I assume the person who I said, "....I totally rape you" was not a pal of the woman he said it to, and also it appears to have been said in a gleeful, looking-forward-to-it happening scenario, so it was completely vulgar. There were so many better ways to express his desire to suck out on his opponent at that moment, and it was totally disgusting the way he did it.

As for why "rape" should be considered a worse metaphor than "murder", some good points have already been made in the comments. Still, I have to say to some degree, trying to decide whether it's worse to be metaphorically murdered or metaphorically raped is a little like trying to decide whether its better to die by drowning or by a bullet to the head.

At the risk of getting more political than I like to when talking about poker, I would like to add that some of the problem is that we have been overwhelmed by "political correctness" which has inhibited free speech to a significant degree. Sometimes people say things that other people find offensive, but we do still have a 1st Amendment in this country.

The 2+2 poster was certainly within her rights to comment on the harsh language, and it is disappointing that no one else defended her and instead sided with the jerk who made the comment. But the guy's bigger crime was berating her after she offered her gentle objection, not uttering a single word.

Rape is a sex-crime. Murder may get a harsher sent...

2012-05-22T23:55:53.713-07:00

Rape is a sex-crime. Murder may get a harsher sentence than rape, but sex-offenders are more vilified. People generally tend to be more squeamish about sexual matters. Men traditionally are expected to be soldiers, that is trained killers, if circumstances dictate, or indeed it is acceptable to kill to protect home or family or for personal safety. The state kills through wars and executions. Murder is killing in what are considered unjustified circumstances. Rape is never considered justified by the vast majority, and is seen as more deviant from accepted values than murder, even if the latter is generally considered a more serious crime in magnitude.

Also, many swear-words are sexual, especially those considered the most taboo, as the entire subject of sex causes such strong feelings. It is interesting that other strong swear-words tend to be related to faeces and urine. Anything relating to the 'private' bodily areas seems to generate taboos. Even in isolated tribes in which clothes are hardly worn, they still cover their genitals if nothing else. I think it is genetically hardwired into us.

NT / Cardgrrl hits it right on the head (as usual)...

2012-05-22T20:12:20.798-07:00

NT / Cardgrrl hits it right on the head (as usual). "Rape" and "lynch" carry a certain extra emotional baggage related to their connection to oppression of certain groups of people, while "murder" is more generic.

LOL....You're killing me Grump.

2012-05-22T19:58:43.179-07:00

LOL....You're killing me Grump.

I think that with the advent of TV it has become a...

2012-05-22T19:09:51.565-07:00

I think that with the advent of TV it has become a lot easier to be desensitized to murder than it is for rape.

Murder is generally violent and final whereas rape has ongoing consequences for the person who received the act.There is a lot more mental anguish involved and it's more frowned upon in social settings.

The Difference between telling a friend in a crowded room.

I'm gonna kill you
or
I'm gonna rape you

Much like your reflexes, the 2nd one is the one that is going to get cringes from pretty much everyone. The 1st not so much.

I think it's because, by and large, rape is a ...

2012-05-22T19:05:04.775-07:00

I think it's because, by and large, rape is a crime of violence against women. (Yes, men can be raped and that's equally awful, but the word rape usually invokes an act of male sexual aggression against a woman, or a male who is thereafter often stigmatized as having been 'reduced' to the condition of a woman on account of his having been raped.)

Because rape has been and still is used both individual and systematically to control and oppress women, because it is a culturally charged crime that historically and still currently comes loaded with shame and ongoing life-damage, because it is something actively feared by half the population on a regular if not daily basis—it's not at all the same thing as murder.

Rape is about using and humiliating a particular portion of humanity BECAUSE they are female. It is a violent crime with a social context (in the same way as lynching is).

In fact, can you imagine someone saying "I got lynched" at the poker table? Or, "I'm going to lynch you this time!" (especially to an African-American opponent?

I don't think most people would consider that appropriate or acceptable.

I had a similar thought when I originally read tho...

2012-05-22T18:54:52.268-07:00

I had a similar thought when I originally read those two posts about the use of the word rape in a poker context. Where do you draw the line? I personally believe in extreme leniency when it comes to verbal offenses unless they are directed at an individual. I'm not easily offended and think others should often lighten up.

That said I have jumped to the defense of a female at a poker table when one of the guys has very clearly crossed the line and made them uncomfortable. It's a case by case thing in my opinion and absolutes are unnecessary.

An old mentor of mine once said that exaggeration ...

2012-05-22T18:04:47.536-07:00

An old mentor of mine once said that exaggeration is the same as lying.

My first boss was a veteran of the first world war (showing my age) and didn't take very well to folks joking about war. War on drugs, war on illiteracy, etc. seems to minimize the horror he went through. He said he held his best friend as he coughed up chunks of his lungs after breathing poison gas.

I did work with a girl long ago that had been raped in the mall parking lot. Nothing funny about it all, even with the best jest.

Murder, to someone that has experience it perhaps with a close family member, wouldn't be humorous at all.

Better words to thoughtful folks can always be chosen, to those less thoughtful it probably won't matter anyway.

I think in this use, murder is much more innocuous...

2012-05-22T17:57:31.972-07:00

I think in this use, murder is much more innocuous. Rape really refers to a specific type of act.

I think somewhere in between is the reference of a sporting event to a "war" or "battle", which seems worse to me than saying "I got murdered at poker", but not as bad as "I got raped at poker"

I have mixed feelings about spreading the gospel o...

2012-05-21T19:54:19.687-07:00

I have mixed feelings about spreading the gospel of the mighty 2-4. I like to help up-and-coming players, but I hate to let everybody in on my secret weapon.

@Rob I have no idea why my comments here are anony...

2012-05-21T14:50:35.788-07:00

@Rob I have no idea why my comments here are anonymous. That's certainly not my intention.

Grumpy, you have a point. Gazing at Medusa caused men to turn to stone. I assume you're implying this happened to a certain body part of yours.

Then what I don't get is Josie leaving a comme...

2012-05-21T14:22:02.655-07:00

Then what I don't get is Josie leaving a comment as "Annonymous" Whatever else you can say about Josie, she's not exactly shy. I mean, I woke up this morning to find a picture of her virtually topless in my email. The sender was none other than Josie herself.

And she is not exactly modest, either. With her ego, the thought of her leaving any comment as "annonymous" is just unfathomable. So I wonder if it is someone else, perhaps the ever evil Lightning pretending to be her.

OR....I suppose she was using some unusual commenting method where she could not sign in.

Now, as for your comment about "Medusa", I almost choked on my (rare) burger when I saw that.
Can't wait to see her reaction.

I would willingly lose several buy-ins just to sit at the same poker table with you and Josie just to hear the insults flying back and forth.

Forget about a poker match, I wanna see Grump and Josie in an insult contest!

Josie: If I were going to title the post based on ...

2012-05-21T13:25:07.446-07:00

Josie: If I were going to title the post based on the effect of looking at you, it would have been called "Medusa" instead of "Eclipse."

Rob: No joke. Grrouchie: You were right--it was ...

2012-05-21T12:52:09.894-07:00

Rob: No joke.

Grrouchie: You were right--it was in the spam folder, which I never bother checking. In fact, I found several others there, too. Strangely, I think they were all from Josie, some under her own name, some anon but probably her. I have no idea why this would be so.

Great meeting you, Grump and let's do it again...

2012-05-21T10:39:27.953-07:00

Great meeting you, Grump and let's do it again real soon. It was awesome to see the "2-4" in action. Lesson learned. Definitely the most powerful hand in poker.

Seeing as how you linked me a couple of times in this post, I am expected a huge increase in pageviews today. Thanks!

Stump.....I don't know who you are--by sight, at least--but I want to meet you! Say hello next time, and please if you see me giving my money to a guy covered in Steeler crappola, STOP ME.

So, is that a Grump joke or was there really a comment lost? Why would Josie comment as "Annonymous"? If there's one person who doesn't like keeping herself annonymous it's that biatch!

Who is this in reference to? also, grump, check yo...

2012-05-21T10:09:57.796-07:00

Who is this in reference to?
also, grump, check your spam comments. I have had a few go there for no reason instead of my blog.
Josie is usually the culprit most likely because blogger sends whore measuring the spam box. :)

But surely you must know that online WWF is rigged...

2012-05-21T08:46:46.783-07:00

But surely you must know that online WWF is rigged.