Thursday, June 19, 2008

Mucking a winner




I've told many stories before about players (including, on a couple of occasions, me) mucking a hand that would have been the winner or would have at least shared the pot--most recently here. This is virtually always because the player involved misreads his own hand (overlooks a straight or a flush, for example), or misreads his opponent's hand as being stronger than it really is. Either way, he concludes he has a loser and throws it away, and with it the pot.

Yesterday at the World Series of Poker there was a variation on this, one that I don't recall ever seeing go down before. Here's how it was reported by the PokerNews bloggers covering the Stud/8 event:

Whose Chips?

Tim Frazin has gotten himself into a bit of a sticky situation. He and
David Benyamine were involved in a pot that went to showdown. When the cards
were turned up, Benyamine had 8-7-6-5-4, a straight and an eight-seven
low.

It was Frazin's turn, and he couldn't beat the high, but he did hold an
eight-six low, good enough to win him the low half. As with every pot, the
dealer was occupied preparing the pot for a split, awaiting the results of the
showdown. Frazin didn't wait though, and he mucked his hand before the dealer
had a chance to read it.

The floor was called over, and each player gave their side of the story.
The high half was clearly awarded to David Benyamine. However, the low half of
the pot is in poker limbo at this moment. The chips were placed in the dealer's
rack while the surveillance team reviews the tapes to find out exactly what
ruling to make. The chips are out of play pending a decision.

About ten minutes later came this update:

David's Chips

The controversial low half of the Benyamine/Frazin pot has been awarded to
David Benyamine after reviewing the tapes. Those chips are back in play now.

I have to sort of read between the lines here. It appears that Tim Frazin exposed his hole cards--presumably other players saw them. I'm guessing that he wasn't mucking because he misread his hand and thought he had lost, but because he assumed that once he had shown them, it didn't matter what happened to them. For whatever reason, once he had shown that he won the low half of the pot, he was done with the hand, turned his cards face down, and tossed them away, before the dealer had seen them and confirmed how the pot was to be awarded.

I cannot figure this out. In years of playing, I can't recall ever showing what I believed to be the winning hand, then turning it face down and throwing it into the muck. Why on earth would any player do this? The only reason that I can imagine is that he thinks it will speed up the process of getting on to the next hand. But risking losing the pot to save maybe two seconds that it will take the dealer to kill the hand, rather than having the player do it, seems an outrageously stupid trade-off, in terms of risks versus benefits.

Poker dealers have a set routine, a series of steps in a specific order that they are supposed to do to conclude one hand and move on to the next. These include, in order, pushing the pot to the winning player, moving the button (if there is one), dropping the rake (again, if there is one), and killing the winning hand(s). Notice that killing the winning hand(s) is the very last action to be taken. (Losing hands are to be killed before pushing the pot.) That gives everybody at the table ample time to examine the hand and either agree that it's the winner or speak up if there is a problem identified.

I cannot think of a valid reason that a player who thinks he is entitled to a share of the pot would or should kill his own hand--ever. Let the dealer do it. There are certainly dealers who don't follow the prescribed order, and kill the winner before pushing the pot. I hate that. When I have one of those dealers, I don't try to change their bad habit, but I do keep an eagle eye on what's happening, because one of the safeguards in the system has been removed. I want the pot securely and uncontestedly in my possession before my winning hand gets put into the muck.

Did the tournament staff make the right call once the dispute was brought to their attention? Probably, though I'm not sure there is an absolutely correct versus incorrect decision here. In hold'em, with only two hole cards, if they are exposed, it is likely that several other players will have seen them and will agree as to what they saw. If the dealer accidentally kills the winner, as happens once in a while, the players' testimony is usually sufficient evidence for the floor to award the pot where it belongs. As long as the player has done everything he reasonably can (turning his hand face up, and speaking up instantly if the dealer erroneously mucks it), there is no reason he should be penalized for the dealer's mistake.

But in yesterday's situation there were two additional considerations. First, there were seven cards to be read, rather than just two, making it much harder, presumably, to get several witnesses who can recall and agree as to exactly what cards were shown. Second, this wasn't the dealer's error, but the player's own action. Surely he is less entitled to any benefit of the doubt when he threw his own hand into the muck.

So my answer is this: Even if the tournament staff reasonably could have made a different decision and split the pot, Mr. Frazin has nobody but himself to blame for the outcome. Rio security personnel shouldn't have to review videotapes to discover what his cards were, when all he had to do in order to claim half of the pot, after exposing his cards, was nothing--just let them sit there!

I didn't recognize the name of Tim Frazin, but according to his Poker Pages profile he has plenty of substantial tournament cashes, including two for over $100,000 each. He is far, far past the point at which inexperience can be blamed for this screw-up. My guess is that he has developed a nasty habit of showing his cards, them mucking them prematurely, and this time it bit him in the butt.

I just checked another page that came up in a search of his name--his bio from when he was in a World Poker Tour final table. Seeing that now, I do recall him, though the name didn't ring a bell. He was on the WPT just a couple of weeks ago, in fact. He was memorable because Mike Sexton and Vince Van Patten kept referring to the fact that he works in a pizza joint, and because he uses a Magic 8 Ball to help him make difficult decisions at the table. (Brilliant strategy, that.)

The blurb about him says that he is writing a book titled How to Lose at Poker & Still Have Fun. Keep throwing your winning hands in the muck, and that's advice you'll surely need.

2 comments:

Unknown said...

This same thing happened at my table on Sunday. The hand involved a lady and a drunk cowboy who were sitting next to each other. On the river the lady bet and the cowboy called. The lady turned over Ace-King with no pair. The cowboy showed his cards to her but not the dealer or the rest of the table. She was the only person who could possibly see them. She said "that's good" and then the cowboy mucked his hand right into the pile. I thought "that's good" must mean "that's good my Ace high won". The dealer pushed the pot to the lady and the cowboy protested. He said he had a pair, and she confirmed it. Dealer said I can't give you the pot you mucked your hand and the cowboy started to get more and more angry. It was sort of funny because he was drunk and was arguing about something he had no chance of winning. He said more than once that the dealer doesn't have to see the hand. From the beginning the lady said he could have the pot, but the cowboy wouldn't let go of the argument that the dealer didn't have to see the cards. The floor of course upheld the dealer's ruling, but allowed the lady to give the cowboy the pot.

Pete said...

I see a fairly common related practice at holdem. Often a player who has tabled his hand and is now declared the winner (either the other players have mucked or the dealer has killed the other tabled hands) will reach out and flip his cards face down before the pot has been pushed.

I have always assumed they are doing this to deny the information of what they played to any player who had not been paying attention whne the hand was tabled. I sort of assume that the player here had that thought. He figured he would show his hand to claim the pot, but didn't want his opponents studying it to closely to figure out what his starting hand was. Unfortunately he properly table his hand and wait to be declared a winner.