Monday, November 07, 2011

Poker gems, #443

Ed Miller, in Card Player magazine column, November 2, 2011 (vol. 24, #12), page 34.

The great thing about the turn is that nearly every drawing hand is an underdog to a decent made hand....

Therefore, whenever you bet the turn, you usually want draws to call. My guess is that statement strikes many of you as wrong. "I bet to get the draws out!" you exclaim. "I sure as heck don't want them calling and drawing out on me!"

Nope. You want them calling. Or at least you should. Because if you're betting so much on the turn that the draws fold, then you're also pricing out many of the weaker made hands. With no draws and no weaker made hands to call, you're getting action only from better hands. which means you're making losing bets. If trying to get draws out is how you think about the turn, then you have it all wrong.


Crash said...

Of Course

Aussiesmurf said...

I would say that this quote doesn't really give the whole story. When you say that you are betting 'to get the draws to fold', what is meant that you are betting so that the draws do not have the pot odds to play. Of course you 'want' them to call in the sense that you will be a favourite before the river.

I suppose that what you are doing is betting enough so that the draws have a no-win situation - fold and cede the pot, or call, on what is essentially a bad mathematical proposition.

arniejokin said...

I too think this is kind of misleading. Your turn bet should correctly charge a draw for seeing the river, and given the nature of the board and the amount in the pot your bet size should be calculated carefully. You do want draws to call, but charging them too little is as much of a mistake as charging too much. What you are also risking by keeping a perceived drawing hand in, is the chance the draw hits and you are bluffed by a weaker holding that takes the opportunity to represent the now made hand.
What this concept also assumes is the people you are playing against understand pot odds and the odds of hitting their draw. Some opponents understand neither of these things and will call any bet on multiple streets with any draw. These players should be charged the maximum.