Wednesday, July 08, 2009

More professional poker cheaters




The newest issue of All In magazine (vol. VI, issue 6; no date given) has a feature about Chad Brown and Vanessa Rousso (pp. 56-61). I was very surprised to find this confession in it:

That's not to say that poker romance is without its own unique pitfalls.
For one thing, there's the potential of having to compete against your partner
in an activity so rooted in individual success. "Early on in our relationship,"
recalled Rousso, "we had to acknowledge the possibility that we'd end up at the
same table." Both considered the idea of soft-playing one another to be
unethical--not to mention antithetical to their competitive instincts. "We
basically have an agreement that in the rare occasions we're at the same table,"
said Brown, "the one thing that we don't do to each other is to trap ... That
can, uh, ruin the romance."

[Ellipsis in original.]

This is an obvious internal contradiction. If you rule out trapping, then you're soft-playing. I don't see how it can be thought of otherwise. If trapping would be the highest EV way of playing a particular hand, and you exclude it a priori as a possibility because of your relationship, that is soft-playing.

And it is cheating.

Of course, there's cheating and then there's cheating. This obviously ranks well below, say, owning an online poker site and using insider access to look at opponents' cards while you play against them. But it is clearly a violation of the rules.

I used to play frequently at the Hilton with a married couple, and they made it clear to all that if it was just the two of them left in a hand, they would check it down every time. They weren't trying to be sneaky or underhanded about it; everybody understood it, and if they became aware that somebody wasn't familiar with their practice, they made it explicit. I got to know them well enough to be completely convinced that they saw nothing unethical or improper about this.

But it is unethical. It puts other players at a significant disadvantage. My guess is that this couple never thought through how this could be so.

One of the major considerations in deciding whether to call a bet on the flop in hold'em--especially in no-limit games--is the implicit threat the bettor is making that you may have to call even larger bets on the turn and river in order to get to a showdown.

Now imagine a situation where Wife is first to act after the flop, to be followed by an unrelated player and then Husband on the button. Wife has an advantage now that she would not have if it were two unrelated players in the hand; if her husband happens to have a monster hand, and the in-between player folds, he will just call and she won't have to make a difficult decision about whether to call a raise. That effectively increases the range of hands with which she can make this early-position bet. She can also use that knowledge to her advantage in bet sizing. She can afford to make a larger bet than she otherwise might--hoping to drive out the player in the middle--because she knows that if it works, it's the end of the money she has to put into the pot. That ability puts the middle player at a direct disadvantage.

Husband also has an advantage. If the in-between player drops out, Husband can then safely call without having to worry about facing additional bets on the turn and river. If he is on a draw, say, he knows that he gets both turn and river cards for the price of the call, whereas any other player in his spot would have to figure his pot odds based on getting only the turn card for the price of the current bet. His decision is made easier all around.

Of course, what Brown and Rousso claim as their only limited version of soft-playing isn't this explicit. It would be extremely difficult ever to prove, for any given hand, that one of them played the hand in a straightforward manner, rather than slow-playing and trapping, out of consideration for the relationship. But in a sense, that makes the practice all the more insidious. At least with the couple from the Hilton, what they were doing was out in the open.

Anytime you soft-play an opponent--especially in a tournament situation, which seems to be the bulk of both Brown's and Rousso's play--you are hurting everybody else. If Brown does not maximize his chance of crippling or knocking out Rousso, he keeps a skilled player in the game longer and/or with more chips than would otherwise be the case. If he doesn't go for the kill when he could, it negatively affects every other player in the tournament, and especially the others at that table.

Of course, it is true that one tends to play more cautiously against opponents that one knows to be skillful and dangerous. Brown and Rousso obviously know that about each other, and will naturally tend to be more leery of building a big pot without the nuts than they likely would be when contesting a pot against a random donk. Taking a conservative line against an opponent known to be a thoughtful and skilled player is not soft-playing, not cheating, not against the rules. It's common sense.

But what Brown is saying goes well beyond that. If "no trapping" really is agreed upon in advance, then they each bring to the table a big advantage that nobody else has. If one of them makes a substantial bet and is called by the other, the bettor can be assured that the caller is not slow-playing a monster hand, with the intention of dropping the hammer on a later street. The call pretty much must therefore represent either a draw or a medium-strength hand. A position call is often enough to shut down the bettor on the next round, for fear that the caller is trapping. Remove that from the equation, and you greatly narrow the range of hands that you might be facing. That knowledge would be an enormous advantage, and it is one that is being granted to nobody else at the table.

That is soft-playing. It is against the rules. It is cheating.

Is it really possible that Brown and Rousso are incapable of seeing that?

11 comments:

Willy C's Poker Blog said...

If I had a poker playing girlfriend and we both happened to end up at a final table, I think it would cause problems 'off' the table if we went easy on each other!

I believe it is very stupid and narrow minded of Chad and Vanessa to say something like that. Good poker players are some of the most legit and honest people in the world, this is just going to piss them off.

Poker is poker and you should always try and crush your opponenent on the table in any way you can. Doesn't matter if it is your granny or your partner. It is war out there and you're weak if you 'go easy' on ANYONE, no matter who they are!

Matthew Yauch said...

I think I would lose the respect of my poker playing friends if I told them I wouldn't trap them. I will try to get all my friends' chips any legal way I can, and if I trap my girlfriend, I'll tell her she needs to be more cautious of people trying to trap her, the end. There's one thing about all people I've known that take playing poker seriously, and that is that what happens on the felt doesn't transfer into the real world. If you crush someone beneath your boot and take all their money, maybe you buy them a drink or dinner after, but beyond that and strategy talk you can't hold grudges or think about it much more.

Anonymous said...

u r all idiots, its not cheating

Unknown said...

If I looked like Chad and had a girlfriend/wife or whatever that looked like Vanessa than I wouldn't want to do anything that decreased my odds off the table, if you know what I mean.

I may still may try the "squeeze play" on her though.

- ChipEnvy

Cardgrrl said...

@ Anonymous: Nothing like a well-considered argument! Thanks for your contribution.

There's only one solution to the problem of not being willing to play one's most competitive game against a loved one.

Don't play in the same game with them. Period.

The social contract behind the game of poker is "Every person for him- or herself." Anything else is soft-playing, and is against the spirit of the game. If agreed upon in advance, it is a form of collusion. If done silently and unilaterally (i.e. without the knowledge or consent of the other party), it is at least a lapse in poker ethics.

In poker, you have to be willing, nay eager, to hurt the ones you love. If you're not, don't play with them.

Will "The Hammer" said...

Nicely done. Well thought out and well written sir.

Faybio said...

I had been teaching my gf Crystal how to play NLHE MTTs and SNG's online, as well as HU NLHE, so that she could both appreciate and take part in my hobby if she chose to. She quickly became a proficient player, but was reluctant to play live in a casino against perceived "better" players. I suggested a local charity tournament as her first live experience (against presumed soft competition), and she agreed to play in a one table satellite for the $100 buy-in ME (Top 2 win buy-in).

On the day of the tourney, we arrived a bit late. There was only time for one more sat to run before the ME, so we agreed to both play in it. I told her that she knew how I played, and that she should use that to her advantage against me, and that I'd do the same to her. Hopefully, we'd finish 1-2. We kissed, sat down, and played.

Crystal played well. She raised in position when there were limpers, and punished with cbets to take down medium sized pots. (The older gentleman next to me leaned over at one point and loudly said to me "She knows how to raise...") I also played well early; I had a good read on my table, and emerged as the chip leader when we reached 5 handed.

Up until this point, myself and Crys had honestly avoided any confrontation. Blinds were 100t-200t, ante 25t. Crys opened in the cutoff with a raise to 1000t. I sat in the BB with 8c7c. The small blind folded, and I considered folding myself. I estimated that I had nearly triple Crystals stack, and that taking it would catapult me way ahead towards a sure win. For another 800t, I made the loose call. My intention was to fold unless I flopped either a monster or monster draw.

Ts 8c 7h. I checked immediately, which I had done all tournament when first to act. Crystal tanked, and I hoped she folded. I knew that no matter what she had (over pair, top two) I had her beat. I stared at the pot, and tried to remain as still as possible. Everyone at the table knew of our relationship (we spoke openly about it in order to avoid any possible accusatory mention of it later), so any type of perceived "tell" in Crystal's direction wanted to be avoided.

After what seemed like an eternity to me (but was likely only a seven second period), Crystal pushed. Without even thinking, I called. She tabled AQ, and I showed my two pair.

"Did you teach her that play?" asked one idiot, pissing me off more than Crystal. I ignored the comment, and smiled weakly across the table at my lady. Crystal beamed back, but I knew that she must have been disappointed to lose to me. "I'm sorry" I mouthed, as the dealer tabled the river.

Q.

A small crowd had gathered in order to watch this last satellite finish, and some groaned at the thought of what was coming. Some called for another Q, but I knew that Tens and Aces needed to be avoided, too. Suddenly, I didn't feel any of the strange sadness that I had felt moments before. I wanted justice. I wanted to win this hand. Crystal leaned forward anxiously, trying to "will" another miracle card.

An ace came on the river. The rail (what else am I supposed to call it?) erupted. Strangely, I felt nothing but joy as I parted with almost half of my stack, more than I had anticipated. Even then, I subconsciously knew that the best possible results had occurred: I had played honestly, and I hadn't eliminated my girlfriend from a tournament. Crystal lasted one more spot, eventually finishing fourth after being eliminated by the second place finisher. (I eliminated the third place finisher, as well as the previously eliminated fifth place finisher, to finish in the chiplead.)

Because of the confidence gained by her play in the sat, we bought Crystal into the ME, and she did great! (Both of us did.) However, this story is long enough, and the relevant point has been discussed.

I got gotten out of a possibly uncomfortable ride home by running into a runner-runner better two pair, and I couldn't have been happier!

Anonymous said...

What a joke. It is hardly cheating, you can choose to play however you want, for example if you choose never to play aggressive with certain players, because you are afraid of them etc. There is now way to legislate your mind in such a way.

Jordan said...

Grump, your explanation of why the check-down players gain an advantage is very well reasoned. Thanks. Now I know what to say when I see it at a card room. It always pisses me off, but its hard to articulate the unfair advantage the other players get.

Anonymous said...

Rousso and Brown have a habit of attacking any derogatory remarks made about them, and so far the only negative comments I see about the article are all anonymous. This is just speculation, but something tells me one (or both) of them has found your blog and the comments section.

Big-O said...

I play tournment poker with my son and always slowplay if the situation arises. I don't see it as cheating. I may be wrong, but it certinly doesn't feel like cheating.
However I do not dump chips to him...that indeed would feel like cheating. I can't explain the difference, but I do know how each "feels" to me.
Signed....Very Proud Dad