Saturday, September 01, 2012

Stud rule

Yesterday I played the weekly Friday noon HORSE tournament at the Orleans. Went out mid-pack, nothing exciting.

During one stud hand, the player to my right turned his up card face down, but then looked like he might be second-guessing himself and wishing he had played it. I ignored this and went on with my action, which was to complete the bring-in bet. The next player's cards were in the muck as soon as my chips were out.

At this point, the dealer held up his hand to stop further action, saying, "The action is still back here," pointing to the player to my right. I thought that was peculiar, but decided to wait until the hand was over to inquire about it. Player to my right folded, and the hand played out.

When it was over with, I asked the dealer, "Wasn't his hand dead as soon as he turned his up card face down?" The dealer said, "No, I don't think so. But I'll ask." He called the floor over, though appropriately continued dealing the next hand so as not to make everyone wait.

He was surprised that the floor confirmed my impression, and apologized for having been wrong.

So today I'm looking in my rule books to be sure that my memory on this point was indeed the standard rule. It is.

Krieger and Bykofsky, Rules of Poker, page 178:
Turning an open card or cards face down, or commingling open and closed cards together is tantamount to holding. The hand is dead.
Cooke and Bond, Cooke's Rules of Real Poker, page 25:
A player who turns upcards facedown or mixes upcards and holecards together when facing a bet is deemed to have folded and his hand shall be declared dead.
So if you're ever playing seven-card stud (or razz, or stud-8) and are faced with the same kind of situation I was--the player on your right has turned his up card face down but has not yet returned his cards to the dealer for some reason--you can safely proceed as if it is your turn, because it is. His hand is as dead as if his cards were already in the muck.


Apollo said...

I wish you'd go first to Robert's Rules of Poker when you're looking for these tidbits.

The advantage Robert's has, in addition to being searchable online, is it very closely matches, often word-for-word, the actual rules used in many (most?) Vegas poker rooms.

Robert helped write the original Hilton poker rule book, which was then copied and adopted all over town. And that's where the online version of the rules originated.

I've looked at several pages of CET property rule books and compared 'em and they matched word for word for long stretches. You could see a few places where a word or two had been altered, but it was almost an exact duplicate of what's available online.

Knowing that the rules you're referencing are very likely to match the rules in actual use in Vegas poker rooms is useful.

Rakewell said...

OK, here's Robert's Rules on the point in question:

1. Your hand is declared dead if:

(c) In stud, when facing a bet, you pick your upcards off the table, turn your upcards facedown, or mix your upcards and downcards together.